STREAMERS - LISTEN TO THIS: How to deal with Trolls

Dealing with online trolls can be challenging, but here are some strategies you can use:

1. Don't engage: Trolls often thrive on attention, so it's best not to engage with them. Avoid responding to their comments or messages, and don't give them the satisfaction of knowing that they have affected you.
2. Block or mute: If the troll continues to harass you, consider blocking or muting them. This will prevent them from being able to interact with you on the platform.
3. Report the behavior: Most social media platforms have reporting features that allow you to report abusive or harassing behavior. Use these features if the troll's behavior violates the platform's terms of service.
4. Take a break: If dealing with online trolls is affecting your mental health, it's okay to take a break from social media or step away from the situation. Remember that your mental health and well-being are more important than engaging with trolls.
5. Use humor: If the troll's behavior is not too harmful or abusive, you can try responding with humor or sarcasm. This can help diffuse the situation and show that you're not affected by their behavior.
6. Seek support: Talk to friends, family, or a therapist about the situation. Having a support system can help you cope with the stress of dealing with online trolls.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Follow the steps that you feel are going to work to diffuse the situation and to get people to at least understand the other portion's point of view, even if they're not going to agree with it. And doing so in a calm, professional, adult-like manner, involving only people that need to be involved, I think is going to be the best case scenario for everybody. Welcome to Down the Rabbit Hole, podcast for creators with Typhloen and myself. Tonight we're going to be talking about how to navigate difficult social media interactions, navigating, you know, trolling, all that kind of stuff. Backlash, I believe it had the title. It's a it's an issue. Before we get into that, Ty Flo Ren, how are you?

SPEAKER_01: 0:44

Uh, doing very well. And our intentions for tonight's podcast are to provide guidelines and etiquette when approaching difficult subject matters in the creator space, and to bring awareness to this fact as well. Um, something that we should note right off the bat is there will be times someone may give a hot take, bring up a sensitive subject. And ideally, we would we should debate in a respectful and logical manner. I'll just bluntly say that most of us here in the streamer space are grown adults, and um I feel like we should be able to like easily talk one-on-one in a roundtable discussion about some of these sensitive subjects or even hot takes. Uh, something that to help you navigate better would be what is the importance of using like the correct tone. I was actually um posting this in um the comment section right now, too, and specifically to add context to this question of a past tweet that I saw from you, Morph, um, was addressing uh like how important tone is and making sure that context is needed. Um, I don't remember the specific creator that you were speaking to, Al. And also as a side note, I will do my best to omit um certain creator names, like especially those who have dropped hot takes in the past before when it comes to content creation or streaming. But your explanation on uh um why he was asking why context matters um was spot on. I really liked how you said specifically that uh you want to make sure that your tone gets across and what you're saying doesn't uh get taken the wrong way or twisted out of proportion.

SPEAKER_00: 2:33

Yeah, I'm glad you remember it because I don't. Um, but that that's a very valid point. And it's it's difficult, right? We we've known this forever. As long as we've been typing online, it's it's difficult to get tone from text. So it requires extra effort, which a lot of people just don't put in. Um, it requires you to really think through what you're saying and your word choice. Um, I know that I I've seen tweets from you about uh recent topics where you I can tell you have deliberated over every word that you were putting in a tweet. I do the same thing because we know how easy it is for someone else to take it out of context. Um, or sometimes you can be perfect, and you have folks like myself who have a tendency to, even though I'm very sarcastic when I'm talking and I make a lot of jokes about around like that, I tend to take things that people say and things that I read literally. So as sarcastic as my brain is, um, I don't always see it when I'm reading text. So if you say something, I might just think you're actually just being a jerk when you're trying to be funny, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 3:46

Exactly. Um, and uh let's let me uh read uh Shell's response here to make a clear message since everything can be misunderstood and turn to something that's not, um and this ties into very much what you just brought up too. Um and I'll even uh open up about this and say that my most recent tweet regarding the new um Hogwarts Legacy Harry Potter game, when I asked a specific question to the trans community, to the trans community, I asked it because I wanted to bring awareness and light uh to this issue. And uh I did my best to be as deliberate and in full support. I even made a follow-up tweet saying that in good faith, I specifically myself am not buying the game because I do a uh have I do want to specifically support friends within the trans community. Um and I will admit that there was still there was some backlash, oh not necessarily backlash, but pushback on um my question too. One of my friends, uh, we had a respectful, lengthy talk as well, where he said, here's the question that you and others should be asking. And uh at the end, he said that he was explaining at length why uh um himself and a few others were like in a defensive tone, and that uh he wasn't necessarily attacking me, but uh trying to give the full explanation and picture. And uh and we're still uh uh good friends to this day, too.

SPEAKER_00: 5:29

Yeah. It's it's always interesting when the hot take involves um again. The attention here is not to focus on marginalized groups, but I just want to use this example. It's when you're talking about when your hot take or your tweet or whatever it is, your interaction involves some sort of marginalized group, whether it's the BIPOC community, LGBTQIA plus, um, or whatever the community is. Um you're gonna find people in those respective communities who also take things different ways. Um there, you know, I I had Bon, I think it was uh I don't remember exactly what the context was, but I had um oh you it's the thing you had sent me, Tytla Ren, on on Twitter uh Discord the other day, where there was somebody who was in a um, I believe the BIPOC community was really upset about the notion that you can't put no politics as a tag because it made them feel that it wasn't a safe space because the person wasn't allowing discourse on a particular thing. And I read that and um I had I mean also being somebody who is uh mixed race said I completely disagree with that. I completely disagree with it because um when I am in some streams, I do I use it as an escape, I do not want to talk about certain topics, you know. So they were very aggressive in how they were presenting their case, and I chose, you know, you you said fortunately you sent me a screenshot or I might have replied responded, but you know, there were some less than pleasant responses to that, you know. So it's it's a difficult thing.

SPEAKER_01: 7:18

I will admit too, adding to um your last point, I have seen mutuals come into those kinds of conversations, like giving their like very lengthy takes, and also um uh even like confronting it and at unfortunately at times uh like becoming at conflict with like several other mutuals that we share together too. Um and I just remember when I sent you that, um, your response I 100% agreed with all your points there. Um and I think that's the thing too, is like uh when it comes down to it, we I see uh Twitch streams as like personal TV production. Um it is your show, you have to run it how you want how you see fit, really. Um almost like I this may not be like the correct terminology to use, but like Laissez-Fare, where it's like uh it's like me having like my hands off of your production because I don't want because at the end of the day, it is uh like your creation, it's something you should take pride in. And uh while I could see some of like the points that that creator was making with like uh um being upset with no politics, I think that that's that j that should lead to a round table discussion of like finding a compromise by saying like, oh hey, uh some of us can say like uh we uh do allow some talk about politics, but keep it at at a minimum. At least uh that's what I see for myself, because while I will address um certain political issues, I do also realize that there are some people within uh my community that want that like you like you yourself want to use it as an escape. So uh I've uh there's certain segments of my Twitch stream where like I'll open it up to discussion, but then after that time is up, we uh go back to like whatever conversation we had previously. And uh and also like for me personally, it's giving the time of day for everyone that wants that wants to like speak about something on their mind, not just favoring a political statement from a one viewer as someone who tries to compromise between um two uh like two parties or more, or if you're someone who's confrontational and trying to press your point and trying to get at people to see your side, or are you someone that which I'll admit to like myself most recently this week and the past few weeks, I've been more of someone who's like on the sidelines, who's aware of uh the conflicts between streamer mutuals, but also someone who doesn't want to get involved. Um, as much as I you know do like mediating between friends, a lot of like um the topics and sensitive subjects uh the past week or so have been difficult to approach, which is why I've uh I'll admit I've been someone who has been on the sideline and you know just watching.

SPEAKER_00: 10:28

Yeah, so I have historically been someone who is uh conflict adverse. Um I just I've always liked to be, as odd as it might sound, I've always looked to be a people pleaser, and I just did not feel comfortable um with conflict. My couple of years here doing um content creation has turned that around for me because we are uh we are attacked con at least in my personal experience, um I have been attacked constantly for everything, and it gets to pull up to a point where I cannot just sit idly by and let it sit. So I don't really know that I get in the count in the position as a mediator where I um want to help both sides see eye to eye. If it if there was truly a case where both people were were saying a similar thing and they really just needed someone to word it differently for each party so that they could realize they differ had this the differences they thought they did, I would actually do that. The problem is that um that's not usually the case. Usually there is somebody who is just way off base. And I I know, and because I usually focus when I focus on controversial topics like the ones I mentioned earlier, I tend to take a very hard stance on people that are disrespecting you know whatever community it is that we're talking about, and I guess I do get a little bit confrontational. Um right, you know, so I I it's it's not my preferred method is to to be confrontational, but you know, I feel like like one thing that was said a lot, a phrase that I I like is you know, to to be sound is to be complicit. So when we're talking about certain topics, I I keep that in mind.

SPEAKER_01: 12:31

Right, and I think that's the thing too. Um is I came up with a follow-up question for this. Um let's see, I just posted it in chat. Um, if there are two mutual creator friends at odds over a thread or some kind of other sub specific subject, how would you approach it? Um, I know you said that you are nowadays more confrontational. Would you be confrontational with both parties? Um uh depending on what the subject is.

SPEAKER_00: 13:04

Yeah, the same way that I say that I I treat everybody the same, whether you're it's your first day streaming or whether you're uh uh a famous creator, um, I don't care. Um if you if I'm friends of two people and one of them is off base, I will let them know that they are off base. Um and if they truly are somebody that is is a friend, we have a common understanding, then they will see my point and they will have an open mind and we can enter into a dialogue. Um but I'm not gonna try to, I am I'm no longer the person that's gonna try to appease both sides, which that you know that that change in my personality over the having been in doing contacts for a couple years makes like the topic of this of this episode makes it difficult for me to just avoid things, which I don't know is always the right answer, anyway, in my opinion. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 14:03

And I think that's the thing too is like there's no cookie-cutter answer um uh to some of these questions that we're posing right now. And I did not post this yet, but um, I guess it's another follow-up question. Is it possible to mediate most, if not all, arguments? Um, granted that I know there's some people out there that uh like myself would rather stay on the sideline or um would uh like would like be confrontational and biased to like one side or the other. Um and I think let's see. What I I guess that's the question that I have for you in chat is like can most, if not all, arguments um be mediated in some form or another?

SPEAKER_00: 14:53

Um I don't know if I can give it if I can can give it a quantity, you know, if I can quantify it like that in terms of most or some. I think it it really depends on it, you know. Um here's you know, given an issue that I had a couple weeks ago, which is still annoying to bring up, but there was a number of people that were um unhappy with me about the way that I asked or what I was asking for here on Twitter. And most people were very aggressive and rude about how they were they were approaching me. And you know, I made some missteps, I guess, before where I was sarcastic back to them and and that didn't go over well with somebody who already was emotional, um, you know, the other party, but then there were a few of them that were DMing me privately or they were responding very logically and matter of fact. So in it it depends on not just really the topic, but the emotional state of the other person. So if you find yourself in a situation where someone is really coming at you, or you see someone going after someone else that you know, or or whether you don't know them, the first things you really want to try to do, in my opinion, this is work not just on online interactions, but you know, as somebody who has managed people for 20 years, um you need to get people to calm down. Um, however, you do I'm somebody who tends to use humor to do that, and it's worked very effectively throughout my entire life. Um, but whatever it is, you need people to calm down and get to a point where they can start thinking logically again, because when you're thinking through anger or whatever that that emotion is going to be, you don't see things um in a way that's gonna allow you to have a productive dialogue.

SPEAKER_01: 16:53

Right. And I think that's uh that's uh like the hook right there is to think logically about some of these um hot takes or like sensitive subjects. I I really liked how you added logic in there because I think like it's that's the thing too, is a lot of these uh topics uh are set on emotion or like emotionally charged, as we were talking about before our live stream. Um and I think to tie into that as well is like what if someone were to accuse you of siding it with one side or being biased and like how would you go about that using logic?

SPEAKER_00: 17:36

Um if someone were to accuse me of doing that, you know, it it it sound I would defend what I what what my viewpoint was. Um I like to I like to I think I've said this a number of times. I try to see both sides of an argument, you know, um before I weigh in with my opinion. Sometimes I get emotional too. Um, as you've seen, I have a freaking segment called More France, so yeah, I do get emotional too. But I try to see both sides of an argument and weigh which seems to be the most logical. Sometimes it's cut and dry, sometimes it's not. You know, if somebody is uh unhappy with my decision or which side that I'm picking, then I will ask them to explain why they feel that way, and maybe there is something that I missed when I was analyzing the situation. I just don't always like to be someone that sits on the fence, and you know, because we don't usually do that in life. We pick one or the other, and so that's how I approach it.

SPEAKER_01: 18:41

Alright. Um, Shell had some responses to a few of our questions here. Shell says, I'm more of a mediator because all I see when people get very confrontational, people get very toxic. Um, I had and I have been a people pleaser all my life and avoided conflict. But now I'm seeing more and more people getting doxxed and unalive threats because they got attacked. Right. Um, that la the last few points there, those are very um, I guess, like un unfortunately they're common within the creator and streamer space. Um, and I think that's brave of you, Shell, to act as that mediator and to be that voice of reason and person of logic. Um, like more mentioned earlier, using whatever method uh possible to calm both sides down.

SPEAKER_00: 19:34

Yeah. So, like the first thing you need to be had, in my opinion, I again I'm not a trained professional. This is what I do and what has worked for me. Um, is I try to defuse a situation, and then you can get both sides to sort of start stating their case and work through it. If one side or both sides refuse to get out of that hyper-emotional state, it's it's best to just walk away or have them walk away until they can do that. You know, there's you're not it's nothing is gonna be productive, you're going back and forth. And when somebody escalates their attacks to doxing, can be very dangerous for some people or really life-altering, or they start put putting you know, um unaliving threats or our wishes or hopes, that's when it's gone to a new level, and you need to treat it much more seriously and and and take more drastic measures.

SPEAKER_01: 20:36

Right. Um, and speaking of, oh, hang on. I think I was scrolling through and I saw another response from Shell. It uh let's see which response, let's which question? Oh, right. Uh, this was in response to my question of if two mutual creator friends are at odds over a thread, how do you approach it? And Shell specifically said it depends. Main approach is to be kind and wise in your way to talk uh to people, um, even more wise and kind towards people you disagree with. And I think that's the thing, too, is like it really is easier said than done to um be open to hearing the opposing side um to see and uh have some sort of empathy, like where they are coming from as well. Um, and to maybe not fully agree with them, but also um let's see, like, oh hey, I can kind I can understand like a few of these the points that could be valid, um, and then from there on like coming to some kind of like mutual agreement or like uh for lack of of like a better description, like peace treaty or some kind of like truce.

SPEAKER_00: 21:50

What is you know uh your common tactic when uh I know you said that you know you you tend to appease both sides, but do you ever get to a point where you feel the need to defend yourself? And it's not just for Shell, but it could be for anybody who's listening, where you find the need to defend yourself and you go more on the offensive, or are you somebody that tends to hang back more? Um take your time in answering that. It's up to you. What is so what is your style in on dealing with conflict?

SPEAKER_01: 22:18

That is a very it's a very um specific um uh strategy. I guess it goes that's the thing too, is like it's a case by case, um and usually when it comes to mediating, um, I try to this may s uh come off as a little it's a questionable strategy, but also like it's the safest one too, is to let both sides kind of uh make their cases, plead their cases, and then to essentially like let them let both sides eventually vent and to uh pick or like pick apart uh both uh sides like uh see which ones are valid too, and then also try to like not necessarily interject myself, but to come in and say, Hey, I see X party as like saying this, but uh I can like under s let's let's like uh highlight these points that uh they're making, but then also let's uh let's also hear like some of yours and highlight them too. And then like based off of like uh what each side is saying and what I can pick apart, trying to or like coming up with some sort of like middle ground, essentially, like that that essentially addresses and uh uh even like answers like some of uh some of the those points.

SPEAKER_00: 23:40

If you're if you're arguing one side of a dispute, you have reasons why you feel that your side is correct, or your your take is correct, and why this side is um correct versus the other side. So whatever it is, you those are your logical reasons. So you simply need to be able to to state them. And assuming that the situation is no longer emotionally charged, you once you start explaining yourself and reason with with sound arguments, again, this is a little bit difficult without having an example in mind. I think you would you would be able to refute it, you know. Um and I guess if the question is do you want A or B, and you say B, I guess everyone would all somebody would inevitably say you're biased. Well, yeah, I'm biased because B is the right choice, you know, B is this, B is that. And I don't think I'm making any sense right now, but in my head I know what I'm trying to say. You you you need to be able to say the reasons why you're supporting one side. You can't just say because, because I have a gut feeling. There needs to be more than that. If that is your reasoning, if that is your logic at that point, you need to think about it more thoroughly. There have to be reasons why you feel one way or another. You might not be able to articulate them very well. So honestly, maybe be a little bit quiet until you can figure that out.

SPEAKER_01: 25:08

Absolutely. And and I'm glad you and I see eye to eye on that, where um when uh I was like providing like my strategy, I I like how you and I are the kinds of people who while we do try to like step in and mediate, um, we're also the kinds of people that that like let both parties like kind of hash it out or not necessarily hash it out, but to but to plead their cases and like not jump in too early um before like uh any before either side can uh um get their points across.

SPEAKER_00: 25:44

Yeah. Um and when you're in those situations too, you know, like everything you just said is accurate. If you find that you're emotional, don't respond right away. If you respond too quickly, it's very impulsive, and most likely you're gonna come off whether you intend to or not, sometimes you intend to, as rude or offensive or sarcastic or whatever, and that is not gonna help the situation. Do not come off and um make personal attacks, do not come off and you know mock the other person in in any way, even if that is what they're doing to you. Um, I'm not gonna say I believe in the philosophy of turning you the cheek, but sometimes killing them with kindness is is does help. And another thing too is when they're very emotionally charged, if you are not, if you can can keep your composure and speak rationally back to somebody who is just attacking you, and this actually works, in my opinion, better in person than it does um over uh you know typed interactions, then they will, in in my experience, begin to calm down because they can see that you're calm and they realize how they must look. And and they will try to change their demeanor.

SPEAKER_01: 27:00

Uh going back to what you were saying too, specifically about um like not responding with anger or with emotion, um, I'll open up to you and our listeners tonight and say that recently on streamer TikTok, um, like for bad story and context, I was saying uh uh a creator was asking, did streaming ruin gaming? Um, and my response was uh not necessarily within um the RPG streamer community, and uh I was like giving points about like how um it brought people together actually. And a commenter, I won't uh list their name, specifically said that oh those RPG uh streamers, like they uh they're not necessarily streamers, they're let's players. It did it did kind of rub me the wrong way, like I'll just playing out say that. Um, and I had to take a step back uh um before responding in uh d in anger or defensively. Um because uh I'll admit some of my close streamer friends like primarily stream RPGs or story-based games. Um another mutual friend of mine came in and uh they asked uh like follow-up questions, which I will say like were asked like very um logically, and also um I even private messaged them say because I know they were RPG streamers too, and saying, hey, I'm sorry that this commenter came into um my video and said these things. I and then I specifically told them that the reason I was not responding was because I was trying to come up with logical explanations as to why um them saying that RPG players are not streamers and that it was essentially gatekeeping. Um they the friend that I was uh like messaging privately like understood they weren't offended themselves, but they were happy that I was trying to come up with ways to stand up for uh uh streamers who play RPG uh games and like and to essentially validate them in the streaming space.

SPEAKER_00: 29:17

Yeah, so it's it's interesting when you brought up that specific example. I know which one this was, and this ties into something you had asked earlier when two friends were having a disagreement, and there have been several instances over the last week or so where people that I am friends with have also attacked some things that you've been saying, and I don't remember how what my answer was earlier tonight, but I'm thinking my first instinct was oh, I'm just gonna step back for a second because I don't want to piss either side off, you know, because like I understood where they were coming from, but I also understood your question, your your take on it too. And but it wasn't a case where you two were saying the same thing, they really did have a different opinion. Now, one thing that I Will add to this um when you're looking at the two sides, is the same way that I tend to look at things very literally. I interpret things different sometimes than other people do. You know, I have ADHD. I do not believe I'm on the um any kind of autism spectrum, but that we we there are plenty of people who are that we interact with on a regular basis, and people who have some sort of neurodivergency are are going to interpret things and see things differently. The way that they respond to them might be a very well thought out, rational uh response, but it may not have come through that way in tone, whether that's a video they're reply they're doing or whether it's in text. And I think it's important to try to understand people and try to understand their perspective when you see those kind of responses and and ask clarifying questions that aren't defensive in nature, that aren't offensive in nature, and just to just to say, hey, can you I'm not sure quite sure I was following you. Can you repeat that? When I have taken that tactic before, um, usually people will reiterate what they were saying in some way that I do understand. Um, occasionally they they think that I'm trolling them and they get more upset, but that's a tactic to try to take too.

SPEAKER_01: 31:27

For a follow-up question that I have uh for you and our listeners is in the aftermath of uh conflicts, um when things have hopefully cooled down between both parties, how do you go about reaching out to those involved, specifically like the two individuals that uh had the most involvement in it? Would you uh go about it privately or public or make a public uh statement on uh either either or?

SPEAKER_00: 31:57

I would never do it publicly, ever. I have worked in many places, not many places, I have worked in places before where a senior person would go after somebody else publicly, it never works out, it demoralizes the person who's being attacked, and it it destroys the morale in the workplace. Now, applying that to this, it's the same thing. So when I had the situation where I was being publicly attacked, and you know, things that I do were being attacked, it was there was levels of embarrassment, there was levels of just I felt like the weight of the world on me, you know what I mean? And it was very difficult. So there was a person who uh later on in those exchanges, a person who I was having a backforth with it was very polite and very adult, like, but even at the end of that, it just kept dragging on. I'm like, why isn't this just a conversation? So I just reached out to them, I didn't know them, but I just reached out to them, like, can we just talk instead of going back and forth? You know, so there's not always a real reason, in my opinion, to drag something that could be private public. I I do not see the point in it. Some people do it because I want to teach them a lesson, like maybe the other person is truly in the wrong. Why do you need to publicly humiliate somebody though? Like, what what's the value in that? I especially if it's if it's maybe if it's a legal case and you want to make sure that people understand how shitty of a person they are. I I I guess maybe, but if it's not anything that is illegal or harming somebody, and you're just out there to destroy them for whatever reason, what's the point?

SPEAKER_01: 33:52

And I think that's the thing too. Um, something that really caught my attention uh from what you were saying, um, was why can't we make this a conversation? I think one of the takeaways that I hope anyone who's listening um uh tonight is conversation over conflict. Um, and this ties back to what both of you uh both of us, what we were saying at the beginning, um is that let's be honest, all of us here on streamer Twitter, streamer TikTok are grown adults and we should quote unquote be acting like it too. Um that means like like what you said, making it into a conversation, um, sitting down and having a roundtable discussion with like between the like the two of us or like with mutuals too to like hash things out. And ideally that's essentially what should happen instead of like a lot of vicious back and forth from what I've been seeing on streamer Twitter um this past week. Yeah, and it's always for our viewers too. If you want to like if you you want to share any examples, like you can omit names like how Morph and I have been omitting them too. It's not an obligation, but um it is appreciated to like hear from your perspectives as well.

SPEAKER_00: 35:11

And if you're listening to this later on a podcast and you have a comment on this, honestly, you can reach out to either one of us on Twitter um and and and send us a DM or send us uh just just tweet us and um we can definitely start a conversation with you. But no, I I absolutely agree with you. Um in fact, it's it's kind of changing my mindset right now and how I want to deal with future situations when you know um I am attacked if I can feel that I'm emotional, whether it's defensive or I'm just angry, to take a moment and not respond right away until I feel I'm calmed down, sort of like you said earlier. And then when I do am ready to have a conversation, when I am ready to respond to the person, I think my new tactic going forward will be to DM them, understanding that they will probably screenshot it. So just don't think that anything you say is private, but just come with that same adult level of professionalism and a DM as well. But if you can invite them to a Discord call or whatever to actually just talk about it so you can remove any of the dangers of there being misinterpreted um tone in your in your what you wrote, um, I think something like that would be beneficial. Now, what you're gonna find out though is a lot of people aren't gonna want to engage in that. I remember a situation this past summer where I had um one of my uh toxic gender and gaming um podcasts on Twitch, and posting clips led to a lot of toxic comments on TikTok, very vicious tock comments on TikTok, to the point where I uh was responding angrily back to many of these. And at one point I invited anyone who who felt that that way they did, truly felt it, to come to stream and I would give them the floor and we would talk about it. And and not to my surprise, only two people took me up on it, and even then they decided to change their tone at the last minute because they knew they would get called out because their their views were so horrible. But talking it out, I think, can be better than trying to engage publicly sometimes.

SPEAKER_01: 37:37

Right, and sometimes I think we'll through private messages as well, like people have that comfort to like open up more or to at least um like what we said too, instead of like acting uh rashly and emotionally, like calm down and say, like, oh hey, now that we don't have like eyes on us, um like uh uh I want to like I want to like come off as someone that uh wants that doesn't want to like seem like I'm attacking you. There was a last minute question. Oh, before I forget, I just saw another response from Shell here. In experiences, uh this it uh considering doing a video about it, uh the Hogwarts legacy game, where players are getting attacked because the authors are very harmful, have very harmful comments, and you try and go another route with being verbal. Uh let's see, I think I'm also getting just got another message from Shell here and support towards the trans community. Um, if you play the game and not letting a person who wants to take away rights ruin stuff for everyone, putting friends against friends is ripping apart the community instead of uh getting stronger and essentially try to show the world we don't agree with her. That's another thing too, is with the um the Hogwarts legacy game, I've I know uh like you, myself, and uh creators within uh your mentorship program, we've had a very lengthy, well multiple lengthy talks about this too. And uh yes, I I do agree with uh what Shell is saying here. And like to show that we stand with marginalized groups with the trans community, and then I think that's the thing too, is like it's this is like a difficult subject for us to tackle, really, because like we s we clearly do stand with marginalized groups, it's just uh that we also need to understand that not everyone who actually does play the games like is like anti-trans or like for lack of a better word.

SPEAKER_00: 39:44

Right, right. Um, and I think uh a lot of it can come down to who you may know personally and how they feel. You know, if you have a friend who is trans and they said that it it hurts them, honestly, even if you can't relate, then maybe maybe don't play it. You know, you know what I mean? It really comes down to to that sometimes because it's it's hard to put yourself, not everybody has a lot of empathy, and a lot of people, a lot of people don't have a lot of empathy, and it's very difficult for sometimes for people to truly put themselves in someone else's shoes. So while you or I may not see something as a big deal, it might truly be a big deal to to somebody else. And if you find that that is um, if you can understand that, then you know it'll make your decision on which direction you want to go easier. But you know, practice empathy, try to put yourself in someone else's shoes, even when they are um attacking you, if they're attacking you, you know, try to understand the place that they're coming from, and that might help you understand their point of view. And if you can understand their point of view, and this is tying it back where I said the beginning, then that will allow you to respond to them in a way that they will probably understand as you're re-explaining your position on it.

SPEAKER_01: 41:16

And before um we uh before I uh say anything um to support your points, um, I just uh noticed this message from Dominique. Discussions are okay, but and when it starts to get nasty, it needs to stop. And I fully agree with what Dominique says, where we have to be self-aware, not just as creators, but as like mature adults and like kind of like notice accused of like when uh like uh when uh like our discussions like turn into arguments which turn into like just blatant hurtful comments, um that's when we need to like uh cut it off or like uh um stop that threatened conversation and then maybe come back, refresh uh more logical, and then say like, hey, I know what I said and what or what you said um uh was like hurtful or like wasn't uh necessarily relevant to like the conversation that was originally intended, but like let's start again.

SPEAKER_00: 42:21

No, you you're correct. There does come a point in a conversation where you can have the best of intentions, you can clearly see their side, you have uh a tactic, strategy in mind to be able to relay your point to them, but they refuse for whatever reason, or maybe they are incapable of getting themselves out of the emotional state that they're in, the elevated emotional state that they're in. And in that case, it it needs to be set aside. Do not try to force your rationality, your logic onto someone who is not ready to get to that point. You need to understand when it's time to walk away a little bit. I'm not saying you don't come back and revisit it, because if you don't, you're just leaving an open wound. But sometimes you need time and it's important to recognize that. I have seen too many people who say, No, I know what the problem is and I can fix it. It's like you need to back off a little bit until they're ready to hear it because anything you say will be lost. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 43:21

Um, and that's the thing, too, is like because for many of us, this is um like a profession, a side job, anything that you uh say that's harmful could be used as like defamation of character, like potential legal actions could be against you um or anyone else that tries to uh like uh to put it bluntly, slander another creator's name.

SPEAKER_00: 43:47

Yeah. And you you raise a good point that I hadn't really it was uh an argument or uh line I was thinking of going down, but we're talking about content creators here, whether you're a podcaster, whether you're someone who posts on mostly on social media, whether you're a streamer, youtuber, whatever it is, you're a content creator who is trying to provide some value to make people happier, whether you're gaming, whether you're doing educational, whether whatever it is, whatever you're doing, you're trying to make people smile, trying to give how educate them, whatever it is. And when you find yourself in a situation where emotions are high, you're not able to do that. It's best to remember the purpose of what you're doing and not let the negativity of a situation overshadow that. So if you need to back step away, if you need to ignore it, if you need to go away, that's what you should do because otherwise you're going to overshadow what you're doing with that negativity. And to give you one quick example, again, of my one of my most recent um that most recent issue. I wanted to keep going back and forth to people when they kept going at me. I really truly did. It was so I was uh upset by the some of the things they were saying, but I was more upset at the fact that I knew I couldn't go back at them because I wouldn't have been nice, I wouldn't have been nice, and but I knew it was for for the best of my brand image and future you know partnership perspective for me to to stand down. And it you have to understand you have to have that self-control sometimes too.

SPEAKER_01: 45:41

Right. And uh that last point you made there that really rings true is like self-control. Um I think like that's the thing too is like with self-control, making sure that that like you don't give in to like emotions as easy as it may seem, or like a feeling like it's necessary, or like it's a like something like a flight fight or flight response to. I think that's the thing too, is we need to bear in mind like this is public. Um what we say, like it's not just seen between like yourself and like another person that you're in conflict with. It is seen by a lot of our mutual creators, um, at least like uh when I'm scrolling through on my Twitter feed, like um, I'll see like a response like from a stream like a mutual streamer friend before I see the original like poster as well. So like I'll see like them responding um in like highly charged, angry, emotional, and then I'll think, oh hey, what's got them upset? And then I'll need to like scroll back up and up uh to like the what uh the original post was um from someone else, and then like that's where it comes down to like down the rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_00: 47:00

Again, context is important, you know, recognizing the emotional states of people, understanding, trying to understand both sides of an argument, whether you're mediating or whether you're directly involved in it, practicing empathy, and um not making something public when it really doesn't need to be, uh, as well as making sure that you're not acting impulsively, responding impulsively, responding with furthering any offensive attacks, and um watching, you know, paying attention to how you feel when you're responding to something, how your body feels physiologically, same way that I do when I'm feeling anxious. I'm at a point now where I can recognize how my body feels, my heart rate is up, and and various other symptoms, you know, uh noticeable symptoms. Um, I'm like, okay, I'm feeling a certain way, I'm gonna take a breather, and then I'll I'll I'll re-evaluate the situation. All of those things I mentioned are important steps to take when you're trying to navigate social media and and comments from people that put you or make you feel a certain way.

SPEAKER_01: 48:13

Right. Um, and I was scrolling through my notes as well, and there is um one specific instance of um essentially like another this goes back to like one of our previous down the rabbit hole talks about setting boundaries as a streamer, but this event, this thread essentially like uh just started involving like a whole bunch of like mutuals where one creator basically called out another for crossing their boundaries and then uh also like uh um pointing out some of their specific messages and actions in Discord, and essentially they've uh been like pr they've been giving like different points or like uh different examples of like this creator not doing it uh just to themselves but to others as well. And it just became like this whole thread about uh mutuals like coming out and saying, like, oh hey, we've experienced like similar misbehaviors or um or like actions that made us uncomfortable. And I and like I think that's the thing too, is like I emph I had some empathy for like uh the creator who um was saying that their boundaries were crossed as like a fellow introvert slash ambivert. Um there's only like so much social battery that I can give. Um and when a creator is saying, like, hey, I need my space, like that's something that uh probably one of the most important things to respect as well. Um but the fact too that it was like it started off with like one creator that's that like it became like a bonfire and it like spread to like a whole bunch of other communities, like it it was uh something that I wanted to bring up with you and and to share as well. The last uh one um that I wanted to tie together was um like the aftermath question when things have cooled down. And yeah, I think if if anything, one of the takeaways I want to give again is like conversation of before conflict, primarily um conversation instead of conflict, if you can avoid conflict altogether and just have a civil grown adult conversation. That's uh probably like the best scenario.

SPEAKER_00: 50:38

I agree. You you will inevitably find people that are used to bullying people into their point of view, being loud, the people that I mentioned in workplace who like to yell in front of everybody. That was their way of silencing them. You will find people like that who refuse to engage with you in rational conversation, but you not everybody is like that. So every situation is gonna be different. Follow the steps that you feel are gonna work to diffuse the situation and to get people to at least understand the other portion's point of view, even if they're not going to agree with it. And doing so in a calm, professional, adult-like manner, involving only people that need to be involved, I think is going to be the best case scenario for everybody. Because the longer and the more often that people continue to attack others online, uh justified or not, and there's these very public battles back and forth, the more we kind of become conditioned to saying, okay, that's an okay thing to see, that's an okay thing to do, and the problem will keep perpetuating, and it will never get better. I think that we can be better, um, but it takes a lot of of it's gonna take a lot of work on everyone's part to get to a point where we can make our first response to a situation. Hey, why don't we take this aside and talk about it?

SPEAKER_01: 52:05

Yep, absolutely. Um, and uh last uh point too is like private conversations are like much better than like throwing this all out in the public where like mutuals could like get involved and then it becomes like a whole mess of things, too, and then it could uh lead to like uh worse conflicts down the line. Yeah, I agree. I definitely agree.